vocal mic recommendations

topic posted Mon, February 20, 2006 - 12:59 AM by  Ashley
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I'm slowly building a home studio/performance set-up for my music and I'm in serious need of a good vocal mic for a reasonable amount of money, hopefully under or around $300. I'm a trained opera singer so sound quality is important.....
Any suggestions?
Thanks!
posted by:
Ashley
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  • Re: vocal mic recommendations

    Mon, February 20, 2006 - 1:29 AM
    I just found a thread on this exact subject on the electronic music production tribe, so I got a bunch of suggestions from that, namely the audio technica line (3000s and 4000s) and the Behringer B-1....
    Any other ideas would be welcome!
    • Re: vocal mic recommendations

      Mon, February 20, 2006 - 5:51 AM
      At one point, my wife (a singersongwriter), my brother (a composer) and I
      got the chance to compare 3 really different vocal mics in completely different
      price ranges in a triple blind study.

      Each singer got to try each microphone (blindfolded) and we then montored them
      through a good Mackie powered monitor, a nearfield monitor and headphones.

      We tried out
      1) Neuman U87 (around $2,000)
      2) the Audio Technica ATM 4033 (around $350 at the time and no longer made but available used)
      3) the Rhode NT-2 $400 (but w got ours for 2 Bills used)

      What we discovered was that the 4033 had, by far, the best detail of the three microphones and lacked , perhaps a bit of warmth; the Neumann was very detailed and warmer sounding than the 4033.

      The Rhode was the surprise of the bunch. Comparatively, it had a lot less detail than either the 4033 or the U87
      but amazingly, if you were monitoring a person singing in headphones, it sounded like the person was singing right next to your ear...........................it sounded completely realistic.

      Later I discovered that Audio Technica sells the ATM4060 which is a tube condenser microphone with the tube built in
      for around $1,300. The tube really warms up the sound and still the mic has considerable detail.

      Well, it turns out that with the exception of the 4060's multiple polar patterns that the 4060 has the identical diaphragm as the now out of print 4033.

      Add an $80 Art microphone preamplifier (with the identical A12 tube as the expensive 4060) to a used 4033
      and you have a $1,300 tube condesner microphone solution for under $3-400 tops.

      Then the 4033 is also just a great microphone for acoustic guitars, percussion (just incredible detail for the latter).

      Add an NT-2 to the mix for another couple of hundred bucks or so and the combination produces a truly world class
      vocal solution for around $6-700 tops.

      As a fan of champagne audio living on a beer budget, this has been great news to our little circle of producers~

      Even cheaper from what I"ve heard are the new Chinese condenser knock offs that sound amazing for even cheaper.
      I haven't actually A-Bed them, but I've heard that for the price (which is next to nothing) that these large condenser microphones added to an A12 microphone preamplifier is an amazingly inexpensive and yet, still pretty classy alternative
      to the really, expensive mics out there.

      Now, add to this the digitally modelled microphone programs from companies like Antares and you can have your equivalent of a $7,000 used RCA tube condenser microphone.

      In a golden ears test under perfect conditions you can probably hear the difference between the simulation of the
      expensive (and unobtainable RCA tube microphones that are so coveted) but the differences will just not be heard by
      98% of all of the listening public.

      You can use the money you save by not buying the pricey Neumanns and their equivalents to buy an entire recording studio with money left over for a nice vacation in Europe.
      • Re: vocal mic recommendations

        Mon, February 20, 2006 - 1:05 PM
        Thank you thank you thank you for all of your suggestions. I'm thinking about starting with something really basic and cheap while I have lots of other gear to buy, and then upgrading as I see fit. I'm sure I'll have use for more than one mic, and I want to learn how to use it before I spend lots of money on a mic and then screw up the sound in my production! I'm thinking about a Rode NT-1A as a basic large-diaphragm condenser for under $200...or I go the super-cheap route and get a Shure SM58 for $70 on ebay and play around until I really want something better....not sure yet!
        Thanks again!
        • What's a good headset mic for live performance?

          Mon, February 20, 2006 - 10:36 PM
          Let me add on a side question -

          What's a good headset mic for live performance?

          (My hands are needed for the knobs and buttons.)


          The one I have is usable but not amazing,
          and kills some of the bass tones...
          (Shure WH20QTR Headset Mic)
          • Dissapointingly, I don't like any headset mics that I've tried although
            The best is the Audio Technica, which I still own.

            Additionally, I quit using headest mics for one important reason.....................you cannot work the microphone.
            Anyone who ever had the pleasure of seeing the great jazz singer Mel Torme realizes that the microphone is
            an instrument and can be manipulated just like one.

            He really worked the proximity effect* of the microphone and really used distance and closeness as a very effective
            tool to deliver more emotion in his singing.

            You just can't do this with a headset microphone, unfortunately, but sometimes the convenience is worthwhile.
            Now, I use mine as a microphone for my vocoder onstage (when I lug it out to a gig) where the proximity effect doesn't matter so much.

            Also, for working with mics where the proximity effect is particularly strong,
            One little trick that live sound engineers have used for ever is this:

            Just roll off 3-6 db of your bass knob (3 db on a two channel equalizer----3-6 db on a three channel equalizer)
            on any vocal microphone unless you use a lot of bass sounds in your singing.

            If you listen to this effect with the voice dry it will sound a little on the thin side but when there is a lot of
            bass or lo midranges in the program material you are singing over, there tends to be a lot of timbral masking
            in the lower ranges.

            Oddly enough, human beings are so pattern oriented that we will make up for missing frequencies in a sound.
            Since there is no intelligibility in the bass ranges, save some emotional information in terms of conveying potential imperiousness or anger, you can really get away with eliminating some of those frequencies and , VOILA, you get
            a really clear vocal sound.

            This is particularly efficacous in loud volume rock or electronica shows.

            I mixed a Goth band last week as a favor to the promoters who were having trouble with the sound and the singers' vocals were completely unintelliible. I actually severely cut the bass on the vocals and raised the overall volume of them commensorately and you could hear his vocals like a ringing a bell (as they say).

            It's important to remember that you'll need to bring up the overal volume as bass waves tend to take up so much of the
            actual volume of a sound.

            If you find a good headset mic, let me know.

            *I assume everyone knows what proximity effect is but in case you don't, it is the quality where the closer to the microphone you sing, the more the bass response rolls on.
            If you want to test it out..............try beat boxing into a regular cheap Shure SM58 microphone about two inches from the
            microphone windscreen.....................now put your mouth right on the windscreen and do the same thing...............now
            cup your hands around your lips and the windscreen and listen to it........................you can have killer bass response by doing this as many pro beatboxers have discovered.
            • Thanks for reply!

              The reason I've used a headset mic is that I need both hands for the synth,
              but when using a mic on a stand, it feels like I'm "chained to it"
              (Perhaps better boom positioning would help... or more hands)

              >Re: What's a good headset mic for live performance?
              >Dissapointingly, I don't like any headset mics that I've tried although
              >The best is the Audio Technica, which I still own.

              Hmm, which model Audio-Technica?


              >Additionally, I quit using headest mics for one important reason.....................you cannot work the microphone.
              >Anyone who ever had the pleasure of seeing the great jazz singer Mel Torme realizes that the microphone is
              >an instrument and can be manipulated just like one.

              >He really worked the proximity effect* of the microphone and really used distance and closeness as a very effective
              >tool to deliver more emotion in his singing.

              Yes, the great Mel. Amazing jazz technique... Trying to head in that direction, acutally


              >Just roll off 3-6 db of your bass knob (3 db on a two channel equalizer----3-6 db on a three channel equalizer)
              >on any vocal microphone unless you use a lot of bass sounds in your singing.


              actually, I have a sort of "radio announcer" voice when using SM-57 / 8 type mics,
              but the headset really "thins" it out... even at point blank range. what I'd want is MORE bass response!
              (yet I suppose that's difficult to find in such a small mic)

              Do you think upgrading to a powered mic would help?

              >If you find a good headset mic, let me know.

              Right.
        • Re: vocal mic recommendations

          Fri, March 24, 2006 - 7:59 PM
          just wanted to add..
          that I use a Shure SM58 and while it's not "ideal"
          once you add a little reverb,
          home recordings can sound great!
          • Re: vocal mic recommendations

            Sat, March 25, 2006 - 8:54 PM
            You are so right, flora....................it's amazing that such old technology that is relatively inexpensive
            sounds so good.

            One of the beautiful things about the SM58 is that it has truly wonderful proximity effect.

            In an intimate setting this can be used to great advantage.

            Singing against a full band with a lot of instrumentation it is sometimes efficacious to
            cut your bass knob on your p.a. by 3 - 6 db so that the bass instruments don't mask the voice.

            There is so much power in the bass frequencies that you'll have to increase the overall volume
            of the mic channel to compensate for the percieved drop in volume that this cut will make happen.

            This is a great trick for making words more intelligible in a dense mix. I just used it a couple of weeks ago
            mixing a goth band in Santa Cruz. I don't do a lot of mixing any more (except for my own records and from stage in
            concert) but there was noone at the board who knew a lot about what was going on so I manned the board for the rest of the night.
            • Re: vocal mic recommendations

              Tue, April 4, 2006 - 3:36 AM
              I was convinced for a time that I wanted a Shure 58 as a basic mic, then I went to guitar center and the manager let me try it next to a few others....and I found that the beta 57 sounded SO much better, and it's not a whole lot more expensive. Worth a test, I think...I'm really happy with my beta.
              • Re: vocal mic recommendations

                Tue, April 11, 2006 - 5:40 AM
                So do you put a windscreen on your Beta 57, Ashley?

                It's interesting that the guy tried to sell you on a Beta 57 which is designed specifically for instruments and not the Beta 58 which is the one specifically designed for voice.

                It doesn't really matter, of course, if you are happy with it, but for future people who read this thread that distinction is an important one.

                the only difference, since the mic elements are identical is that the Beta 58 has a ball windscreen designed for voice
                whereas the 57 doesn't have a windscreen. No biggee of course. If you have any wind problems or an over abundance of plosives (those puffy P sounds that overwhelm the proximity effect on a mic) just buy yourself a large 2nd part windscreen and tape it over the top of the mic, careful not to obscure the sides with tape as that's part of the polar pattern of that microphone.

                Do you have any examples of your singing through that mic, Ashley?
              • Re: vocal mic recommendations

                Tue, April 11, 2006 - 1:08 PM
                Hi,

                I've got the Beta 58, and for the price, (I've gotten them used and new) It works well for me. I sing everything from opera and pop, to solo improvisation to extended vocal technique, and it doesn't clip on me. I also added a heavy monster cable, and the duo's great. With the Beta I can keep the gain lower, and it's clearer, so no high end feedback.

                Laurie
                • Re: vocal mic recommendations

                  Wed, April 12, 2006 - 3:29 AM
                  hey Laurie, have you got your stuff online to listen to.
                  I'd love an URL with some mp3s.

                  Failing that, how about a discography of things that are purchaseable online?

                  You always seem to have the most interesting things happening and the coolest collaborators.

                  I'd love to perform with you some time.

                  Maybe when I finally get around to doing the next Voice and Electronica Festival in
                  either Santa Cruz, San Jose and San Francisco or Berkeley/Oakland or all four?
        • Re: vocal mic recommendations

          Fri, June 16, 2006 - 9:40 AM
          I used to swear by the SM58 as the standard vocal performance mic. That until I compared it side by side to the Sennheiser E835. The Sennheiser has more brilliant fidelity throughout my range (mezzo soprano). The only area where the Sennheiser *didn't* outperform the Shure was in feedback, which the E835 is far more vulnerable to. IMHO, if you handle your mic well, not an issue. I also compared it to the Beta and an AKG model, don't recall. The Beta had the most bizarre sounding treatment added to the voice. It was counted out right away. The AKG was a very close second. Had great sounding highs, better than the Sennheiser, but got muddy in the lower range.

          Over time, the Sennheiser has been really good to me. The vulnerability to feedback's been a non-issue. The mic purchases I'd consider now would be a second performance mic specifically for beatboxing and a mic specifically for home recording. When I upgrade for vocal performance, I'd start looking with, and probably buy, a Sennheiser again. I'm just a really big fan.
          • Re: vocal mic recommendations

            Tue, June 20, 2006 - 7:05 AM
            being a sennheiser fan, too: if it comes to feedback i can recommend the md431. sounds nice and beats the shure in fedback resistance - at least at our poetry-slam...
  • Re: vocal mic recommendations

    Thu, March 1, 2007 - 3:42 PM
    Hello... I am a singer in a group named Saraguate, you could find some homemade recordings in www.myspace.com/saraguate
    Well, I am planning to start buying my own audio stuff, and I want to start from the mic... well... I just want to have recommendations about both, the shure 58, and the senheiser mic's (which model is good, what about the e835), well... I just want a professional one, and of course noone of us wants to have feedback in the middle of a presentation if we take it professionaly, so.... what would you recomend?.... Thank you... i hope to have an answer soon...